After months of teasing and promising this episode, it is lastly time for Iain to share his knowledge on the matter that so lots of you …
source
After months of teasing and promising this episode, it is lastly time for Iain to share his knowledge on the matter that so lots of you …
source
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Copyright © 2022 Car Fix Guru.
Car Fix Guru is not responsible for the content of external sites.
I hope you enjoy this long-awaited and much-requested video and understand that it's not possible to cover every nuance of classic car engine out there. I look forward to reading all your comments and feedback as always, and if there are some common threads then we may well look at doing a follow-up episode.
Brilliant video.
What I used to do with a carbureted engine was pull the choke out but not all the way, but rather the bare minimum – because the idea of going from 0 to 1500 or 2000 rpm in a second has always made me cringe – and then hold it at around 1200 on my foot then slowly finding the choke position that would hold that rpm with my foot of the pedal.
What I learned here is that 1500 to 2000 would have been better.
My question here is: If we have the option of cutting the fuel pump or ignition current, wouldn't it be ideal to keep those off and crank the engine until the oil pressure light (or gauge) tell us normal working pressure is achieved, and then turning the fuel and/or ignition on and cranking it again, i.e., after the engine is "primed"?
how do we know which engines to keep at minimum revs for a while, and which to hold at 1500? in particular, what to do with an air-cooled flat 6?
Shouldn't be all that hard to arrange an ignition cutout on old cars. Had an ignition cutout on an old MGB to prevent car theft. Engine could crank all day with no spark from the two positive ground 6 volt batteries. You can even add an electric oil pump to the oil cooling radiator line. Liter bikes have auto high rev starts.
My ‘84 FJ60 Land Cruiser has to sit for 6 months and takes a long time to get it started for the first time which doesn’t bother me anymore.
I put a Twin Spark Alfa Romeo from the 80s in my 69 Spyder. I used a aftermarket computer to run it . I was a bit surprised that it cranked longer than the original setup. Maybe it is by design? I know it takes one revolution to sort out where TDC is but I think it does a few rotations before it jumps to life.
WW2 Merlin engines had a preoiler system fitted, they also had platignum tipped spark plugs, it was till the 80s we had those plugs.
So all Ian is saying makes so much sense, this is where a good F1 education in theory and practice pays dividends. Thanks Ian
Thank you, Mr. Tyrrell. I bought and am restoring a LHD Riley RMA saloon from 1950. I was flabbergasted by the the number of underdash Bowden cables for the motor management. The only thing missing was a mag switch like in a plane, which would of course be just right to build oil pressure before ignition! I will have to write an entire chapter to add to my 70 year old owner´s manual so my heirs know how to handle that old engine. Oh yes, and my Riley definitely will need me to depress the clutch before starting as well…
Great vid, although I'm not sure priming the engine with fuel (as with the Miura) is best place to start. Maybe start with a dry crank!
Big boat engines have oil primer pumps, each maker recommends however many strokes of the lever to adequately prime the oil system as by comparison to a car its VAST!
I own a Jensen Healey and Mk. I Sprite. I also live in Montana where it gets colder than -40 so starting an older British car can be a real challenge at that temperature. Winters are long and cold here and I worry a lot about damaging the engine when I start my cars
Very informative. Thank you.
Couldn't you fit a timer relay in line with the coil in old classics that delays the 12v to the coil for 5 seconds? The short delay would stop it firing until oil pressure builds. Very cheap and simple to do?
I can practice this on my 1:18 scale Miura 🙄…manual chokes..pumping the gas…i miss my old cars….i want a floor mounted high beam switch too.
Thank you so much. To give your knowledge in such a clear way. Your channel is amazing. Thanks again.
Did you ever use pre-oilers? High performance aircraft have used them for years to reduce startup wear.
All you need is a tin of STP
It's great to see someone knowledgeable addressing the subject of oil starvation upon cold start up, and the dynamics are similar for practically all types of engines. I first was introduced to this topic during my stint as the driver of a touring top sportsman/pro modified drag racing team. When I was to start the engines, I had to crank the engine on the starter until the oil pressure gauge sustained at least 30 lbs of pressure for about 10 seconds, then hit the ignition and fuel switches to light off the engine.
Hope all is well
Great video, thanks. I have a 1971 Lotus Elan Sprint with a freshly rebuilt engine and I’m keen to make it last! The normal procedure in starting a Lotus Twincam with dual Webers is to pump the accelerator 2-4 times then turn the key for it to start immediately. I gather from your video that I should not touch the accelerator but just crank the motor for a few seconds to get the oil where it needs to be, then pump the accelerator for it to start immediately. And then hold the engine at 1500-2000 rpm for a short while before driving off. Does that sound right..?
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I wonder what Mr. Tyrrell thinks about the use of molybdenum disulphide additives. I know that things have moved on, since the days of frothy Duckhams Q but is the supposed 'always slippy' coating of bores and bearings by moly an useless thing of yesteryear, in light of modern oils ? I do use it, as my car isn't used a lot but have a bike with a wet clutch, so put some ZX1 engine treatment in that instead. I add moly to the car's yearly oil change but the ZX1 is meant to be good for 25,000 miles. I may be gullible in believing testimonials but even I'm not dense enough to believe the banking scam text I got a couple of days ago. Why does everyone want to make me rich ? It must be my charm and good looks !
I used the build old Brit motorcycles…would tow them around the block with spark plugs removed…you could feel the difference
Great video. I've always been proud of my Morris engine starting on the button, but now I'll revisit that. Also interesting the throttle pump on the V12. My V8 can flood quite easily if pumped on start up, but cold it always gets plenty of turnover before firing!
Always great content, thank you!!!
Do not not NOT pull the choke all the way out, 2/5 to 3/5 of an inch will do under normal circumstances with a standard design british car. Full out is for an external temperature of -25 degrees centigrade. Which is so cold that you had the battery indoors overnight and handcranked the car before even trying to start.
What's the best way to start an M3 E46 engine?
Every car made from about 1958 to 1978, ish, would have been misused. Nobody at the time loved them. Watch an old contemporarily made film, one with contemporary cars, to see my point brought to life. And the bigger the luvvie on the screen, the worse they treated their cars. And of course every budding dude-about-town in the audience followed suit, straight after the flicks chucked out. Before then, or threabouts, young men had a feel for engines. due to the war. Valued them, saw them as living things almost.
What is being said here is especially important after an oil change. I always pull the ignition, crank the engine in bursts to prime the oil system and the reconnect the ignition to start the engine.
I heard the hydraulic tappets pump up on the Bentley.
Time was when the ignition, choke (with the requisite clothes peg for micro adjustment!) and starter, were separate controls – ignoring the hand adjusted ignition timing – and the engine could be turned over to ensure adequate initial lubrication without any chance of immediate firing. The integration of the ignition, starter controls and steering lock (either seeking to thwart casual thieves – who will by-pass it anyway – or save any untoward effort on the part of the driver) has required the use of yet another electronic gizmo … Progress?
That engine where the oil goes from oil pump to filter and then to bearings etc must be unique. All engines i have restored, Chevy Ford V8. Volvo etc the oil run from pump to bearings, then to oil filter before it goes back to oil pan.
Thanks Ian with a brand new engine I deliberately leave the coil lead out and turn it over allot for oil pressure to build up.But your comments on choke and idle really helpful.
Turn the key. There. Then I the watched video and learned a lot.
I start my Austin Princess up by sticking a screwdriver in to the ignition while someone pushes the car downhill.
Who caught the “the most observant of you will notice this isn’t a Bugatti” completely straight faced joke?
TL:DR. Don’t start a classic engine and then let it idle. It will destroy it quickly because of oil starvation. Let it start then keep it at 1500 rpm with the accelerator, then go drive it. No idling when it’s cold, will kill it early in life
The colour on that Muira is absolutely gorgeous, I'd love to know its name or code.
Well thankfully especially as it seems with warm weather the carburettors on my old cars appear to have exhumed the content of their chambers and it usually takes me several attempts at starting (I always pause after ~5 seconds) before it starts showing life and even then two additional starts to actually start running. I do remember something particular about a Ford I once owned that had an automatic choke that was controlled by some bi-metal contraption in the cooling system. The trouble with this was that if you ran the engine for a relatively short time (e.g. stopping at the first gas station after leaving home) the choke would kick back in full and the only way to start the engine at that point was to apply full throttle as that defeated the effect of the choke. Before you ask, no I did not discover this the first time it happened to me.
I hope Harry watches your videos. He needs to learn how to start his classics and the ones he borrows for review.
Thank you so much for this. I have an old Fulvia with 2 fat solexes, I'm assuming the process should be similar to the Miura??
Would love to know
does this also apply to motorcycles? or the engine is so small that oil goes around immediately
What I really hate is when cars are programmed to start with a flare of revs on purpose. I used to have a DB7 V12. It was marvelous. At least is did a few rotations before firing, but then the revs will flare to 2500 before settling at about 1200. Especially after being stored for winter, it felt brutal.
Meh, he's ignoring how much oil chemistry has improved so that it protects during cold start up. Unless you are using oil from the 60's, you can't just pretend that's not a factor. Also, contradicting that you want the engine to run faster to pump the oil, but you want to run the engine off the starter to pump the oil. Which is it? Bottom line: Just start your more frequently, and drive gently at lower revs by short shifting until it warms up.